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	<title>Comments on: Pain or Pride?</title>
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	<link>http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/2010/01/pain-or-pride/</link>
	<description>In Israel, biking is a sport and politics is a religion. They have it backwards.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 08:19:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Putting Yourself in Danger &#124; Crossing the Yarden</title>
		<link>http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/2010/01/pain-or-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-309</link>
		<dc:creator>Putting Yourself in Danger &#124; Crossing the Yarden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 16:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/?p=602#comment-309</guid>
		<description>[...] feel at all that my activities abuse my body, I feel quite the opposite. Richard is right (see last post&#8217;s comments). Our bodies are temples. That&#8217;s actually why I do what I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] feel at all that my activities abuse my body, I feel quite the opposite. Richard is right (see last post&#8217;s comments). Our bodies are temples. That&#8217;s actually why I do what I [...]</p>
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		<title>By: yarden</title>
		<link>http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/2010/01/pain-or-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-306</link>
		<dc:creator>yarden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 20:38:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/?p=602#comment-306</guid>
		<description>Richard makes a good point. But its not about ego or adrenaline. For me, there is a very spiritual component to the endurance stuff. Its hard to explain. 

Now in this race, I made a big mistake, a dumb mistake. But for me, the lesson is how to learn from this mistake. rather than focusing on a specific time, my real goal next year is to run the whole race and enjoy it all.

I think Richard&#039;s comment also is very appropriate to those who smoke, eat badly, and don&#039;t get some exercise. 

&quot;We were given these vessels to house our souls, we should learn how to respect them.&quot;

Its got me thinking now, perhaps this concept will be its own post next week.

Thanks Richard -- and everyone else who commented.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard makes a good point. But its not about ego or adrenaline. For me, there is a very spiritual component to the endurance stuff. Its hard to explain. </p>
<p>Now in this race, I made a big mistake, a dumb mistake. But for me, the lesson is how to learn from this mistake. rather than focusing on a specific time, my real goal next year is to run the whole race and enjoy it all.</p>
<p>I think Richard&#8217;s comment also is very appropriate to those who smoke, eat badly, and don&#8217;t get some exercise. </p>
<p>&#8220;We were given these vessels to house our souls, we should learn how to respect them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Its got me thinking now, perhaps this concept will be its own post next week.</p>
<p>Thanks Richard &#8212; and everyone else who commented.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/2010/01/pain-or-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-305</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 19:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/?p=602#comment-305</guid>
		<description>I kind of disagee.  Our bodies are temples that can be broken and sometimes very difficult to fix, and sometimes not at all.  We were given these vessels to house our souls, we should learn how to respect hem.  When we are kids we were able to get away with a lot and we could heal quickly.  (I pushed my body to the limit and won numerous tennis tournaments.  I also ran extremely fast and paid the price a few times, all to test my limits, massage my ego and obtain an adrenaline rush. As we grow older, our bodies don&#039;t heal so fast and we have new responsibilities (mainly families and dommunities).  They shouldn&#039;t be left to pick up the pieces if we make a mistake in our endeauvour to satisfy our ego and attain an adrenaline rush.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I kind of disagee.  Our bodies are temples that can be broken and sometimes very difficult to fix, and sometimes not at all.  We were given these vessels to house our souls, we should learn how to respect hem.  When we are kids we were able to get away with a lot and we could heal quickly.  (I pushed my body to the limit and won numerous tennis tournaments.  I also ran extremely fast and paid the price a few times, all to test my limits, massage my ego and obtain an adrenaline rush. As we grow older, our bodies don&#8217;t heal so fast and we have new responsibilities (mainly families and dommunities).  They shouldn&#8217;t be left to pick up the pieces if we make a mistake in our endeauvour to satisfy our ego and attain an adrenaline rush.</p>
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		<title>By: iris</title>
		<link>http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/2010/01/pain-or-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-304</link>
		<dc:creator>iris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:31:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/?p=602#comment-304</guid>
		<description>Yarden--
          congrats on finishing. Stella- you&#039;re a saint for letting him do this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yarden&#8211;<br />
          congrats on finishing. Stella- you&#8217;re a saint for letting him do this.</p>
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		<title>By: libby anfinsen</title>
		<link>http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/2010/01/pain-or-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-301</link>
		<dc:creator>libby anfinsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 00:06:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/?p=602#comment-301</guid>
		<description>Dear Yarden. ..... As usual, your accomplishments overwhelm, and we are all so proud of you.......but not at the expense of you being hurt....better that we have your sweet comments on the pleasure of loving and surviving the reality challenges of life in Israel, than your Superman heroics during the race....Please take care.....libby anfinsen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Yarden. &#8230;.. As usual, your accomplishments overwhelm, and we are all so proud of you&#8230;&#8230;.but not at the expense of you being hurt&#8230;.better that we have your sweet comments on the pleasure of loving and surviving the reality challenges of life in Israel, than your Superman heroics during the race&#8230;.Please take care&#8230;..libby anfinsen</p>
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		<title>By: steven wolisky</title>
		<link>http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/2010/01/pain-or-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-300</link>
		<dc:creator>steven wolisky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 00:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/?p=602#comment-300</guid>
		<description>HI Yarden,
kol hakavod on enduring and finishing.   Running a marathon in the heat can be a grueling experience, but it&#039;s worth it for the exhiliration  and euphoria you get  when you look back upon completion.

   We all know that to try and avoid dehydration, especially in hot humid weather, we need to drink   lots of water during long distance running, triathlons, etc.  At the same time,it is important to be aware of the dangers of overhydraton leading to  hyponatremia (low serum sodium).   Hyponatremia usually  happens when the athlete drink lots of water without taking in enough electrolytes.   Electroles are   found in energy drinks, goos, gels,etc.  The excessive water intake without the electrolytes dilutes the blood causing the life threatening condition of hyponatremia   In fact, hyponatremia, or overhydration, and not dehydration is the most common cause of collapse and even death after  or during a long race.  So always remember to take your electrolyes as well as water during a race, especially on a hot day.

Also ,keep in mind that if you have bad  diarrhea during a race, you   should STOP RACING. This is because with diarrhea, as you lose both water and electrolytes,  ,   you will lose  the electrolytes  even  more than water.    Thus you can end up with hyponatremia even as you keep consuming water and electroltyes to compensate for the heat and the diarrhea. 
As a physician I sould know better, but i did develop a dangerous case of hyponatremia (sodium of 118!)  due to diarhhea,  during  a hot seven and one half hour triathlon in NY in 2007.  This race, called the SOS, involves 8 stages with a total of 18.7 miles of hilly running, 30 miles of hilly biking, and 2.1 miles of swimming in three different lakes.     i crossed the finish line with my arms up in the air, but i ended spending the night in the hospital getting my sodium back to normal.  after the race,  but before the hospital,  i was advised incorrectly but with good intentions by the race director (an ER physician) to drink water.  this would have been the worst thing i could have done, since it would have worsened the hyponatremia.  as a doctor, i know to sometimes not  listen to my doctor&#039;s advice.
i write this because i don&#039;t want anyone reading this to make the same potentially fatal mistake that i made.  
To Yarden and everyone else in the Beit Shemesh Running Club, keep on truckin&#039;  and don&#039;t give up.
Steven Wolinsky MD.
p.s. i did complete the SOS triathlon in 2008 and 2009, being faster in 2009 than in 2007  and 2008.   i also did the tverya marathon in 2009.  so one does recover fully from hyponatremia if it is caught in time and treated correctly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HI Yarden,<br />
kol hakavod on enduring and finishing.   Running a marathon in the heat can be a grueling experience, but it&#8217;s worth it for the exhiliration  and euphoria you get  when you look back upon completion.</p>
<p>   We all know that to try and avoid dehydration, especially in hot humid weather, we need to drink   lots of water during long distance running, triathlons, etc.  At the same time,it is important to be aware of the dangers of overhydraton leading to  hyponatremia (low serum sodium).   Hyponatremia usually  happens when the athlete drink lots of water without taking in enough electrolytes.   Electroles are   found in energy drinks, goos, gels,etc.  The excessive water intake without the electrolytes dilutes the blood causing the life threatening condition of hyponatremia   In fact, hyponatremia, or overhydration, and not dehydration is the most common cause of collapse and even death after  or during a long race.  So always remember to take your electrolyes as well as water during a race, especially on a hot day.</p>
<p>Also ,keep in mind that if you have bad  diarrhea during a race, you   should STOP RACING. This is because with diarrhea, as you lose both water and electrolytes,  ,   you will lose  the electrolytes  even  more than water.    Thus you can end up with hyponatremia even as you keep consuming water and electroltyes to compensate for the heat and the diarrhea.<br />
As a physician I sould know better, but i did develop a dangerous case of hyponatremia (sodium of 118!)  due to diarhhea,  during  a hot seven and one half hour triathlon in NY in 2007.  This race, called the SOS, involves 8 stages with a total of 18.7 miles of hilly running, 30 miles of hilly biking, and 2.1 miles of swimming in three different lakes.     i crossed the finish line with my arms up in the air, but i ended spending the night in the hospital getting my sodium back to normal.  after the race,  but before the hospital,  i was advised incorrectly but with good intentions by the race director (an ER physician) to drink water.  this would have been the worst thing i could have done, since it would have worsened the hyponatremia.  as a doctor, i know to sometimes not  listen to my doctor&#8217;s advice.<br />
i write this because i don&#8217;t want anyone reading this to make the same potentially fatal mistake that i made.<br />
To Yarden and everyone else in the Beit Shemesh Running Club, keep on truckin&#8217;  and don&#8217;t give up.<br />
Steven Wolinsky MD.<br />
p.s. i did complete the SOS triathlon in 2008 and 2009, being faster in 2009 than in 2007  and 2008.   i also did the tverya marathon in 2009.  so one does recover fully from hyponatremia if it is caught in time and treated correctly.</p>
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		<title>By: yarden</title>
		<link>http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/2010/01/pain-or-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-298</link>
		<dc:creator>yarden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jan 2010 16:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/?p=602#comment-298</guid>
		<description>When things got really bad I realized that there were medics all over and should I collapse I would get treatment fast. They also had medics on bikes checking people out and handing out water. So I was not thinking about killing myself.

Hiking is a very different ball game. I used to hike quite a bit in the desert. When there was a chance of bad weather, we would cancel. No medic on a bike is going to help you out in the middle of the desert.

I think the race organizers were watching closely and if they felt there was danger to life, they would have cancelled it -- the Chicago marathon was cancelled after 3 hours I believe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When things got really bad I realized that there were medics all over and should I collapse I would get treatment fast. They also had medics on bikes checking people out and handing out water. So I was not thinking about killing myself.</p>
<p>Hiking is a very different ball game. I used to hike quite a bit in the desert. When there was a chance of bad weather, we would cancel. No medic on a bike is going to help you out in the middle of the desert.</p>
<p>I think the race organizers were watching closely and if they felt there was danger to life, they would have cancelled it &#8212; the Chicago marathon was cancelled after 3 hours I believe.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Landau</title>
		<link>http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/2010/01/pain-or-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-293</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Landau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 16:37:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/?p=602#comment-293</guid>
		<description>Yarden - 

Yasher Koach!  What an accomplishment!

Humans apparently have a limited ability to remember pain - otherwise there wouldn&#039;t be very many families with more than one child!!  The pride will remain.

Although it is not yet Shabbat here, you won&#039;t read this until after Havdalah, so I&#039;ll wish you Shavua Tov, there in our blessed nation.

Bill</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yarden &#8211; </p>
<p>Yasher Koach!  What an accomplishment!</p>
<p>Humans apparently have a limited ability to remember pain &#8211; otherwise there wouldn&#8217;t be very many families with more than one child!!  The pride will remain.</p>
<p>Although it is not yet Shabbat here, you won&#8217;t read this until after Havdalah, so I&#8217;ll wish you Shavua Tov, there in our blessed nation.</p>
<p>Bill</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy</title>
		<link>http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/2010/01/pain-or-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-291</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 14:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/?p=602#comment-291</guid>
		<description>That was very interesting to read.  I cannot fathom continuing on when in such pain and agony.

One thing I am struck by is the how different the quit/continue consideration was for you versus how it is with me for mountain hiking.  (I started doing a lot of hiking, mostly in the mountains of NH) about 15 years ago.  (Please don&#039;t read any of this as criticism - I&#039;m just reflecting on the comparison and contrast.)

For mountain hiking, in addition to evaluating your own physical state, you have to keep an eye on the weather conditions.  Conditions can change quickly.  I use weather forecasts to prepare as best I can, but I have hit conditions a few times where I decided the wiser course was to turn back, rather than continue.  This mentality is encouraged in the hiking classes I&#039;ve taken - I remember lines such as &quot;The mountain will still be there another day&quot;.

Now,  one big difference between hiking and marathon running is the proximity to help.  Ambulances are nearby for those running on streets.  For hiking on remote trails, help can be hours away.  Weather and terrain can make helicopter rescues difficult and/or impossible (and they&#039;re always expensive).  And most importantly, most rescue operations usually involve multiple people who themselves may be put at risk.  So, if I hike on into a big storm and end up needing help, a lot of people (many of them volunteers) could end up putting themselves at risk for my sake.

The net result, is that I am quite proud of the times I&#039;ve turned back when the conditions warranted it.  I&#039;ve read multiple accounts of hikes that ended very, very badly, and I can see that it is easy to let pride and focus on the goal get in the way the decision process.

As I said before - I don&#039;t intend for this to sound like criticism.  (I hate the loss of tone of voice for written communication.)  Just observing how the decision differs for the two activities.

Looking back, do you think you were at any serious physical risk at any point?  Can heat stroke (and other heat problems) lead to permanent damage (via stroke?) or serious heat complications?  Did any of the runners in the race have problems that will not go away in matter of days?

Congratulations on finishing the race, and I&#039;m glad you be able to recover from the ordeal relatively quickly.  Thanks so much for writing about the experience - it is very interesting to get an insider&#039;s view on something very different.

Best wishes,
Cindy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was very interesting to read.  I cannot fathom continuing on when in such pain and agony.</p>
<p>One thing I am struck by is the how different the quit/continue consideration was for you versus how it is with me for mountain hiking.  (I started doing a lot of hiking, mostly in the mountains of NH) about 15 years ago.  (Please don&#8217;t read any of this as criticism &#8211; I&#8217;m just reflecting on the comparison and contrast.)</p>
<p>For mountain hiking, in addition to evaluating your own physical state, you have to keep an eye on the weather conditions.  Conditions can change quickly.  I use weather forecasts to prepare as best I can, but I have hit conditions a few times where I decided the wiser course was to turn back, rather than continue.  This mentality is encouraged in the hiking classes I&#8217;ve taken &#8211; I remember lines such as &#8220;The mountain will still be there another day&#8221;.</p>
<p>Now,  one big difference between hiking and marathon running is the proximity to help.  Ambulances are nearby for those running on streets.  For hiking on remote trails, help can be hours away.  Weather and terrain can make helicopter rescues difficult and/or impossible (and they&#8217;re always expensive).  And most importantly, most rescue operations usually involve multiple people who themselves may be put at risk.  So, if I hike on into a big storm and end up needing help, a lot of people (many of them volunteers) could end up putting themselves at risk for my sake.</p>
<p>The net result, is that I am quite proud of the times I&#8217;ve turned back when the conditions warranted it.  I&#8217;ve read multiple accounts of hikes that ended very, very badly, and I can see that it is easy to let pride and focus on the goal get in the way the decision process.</p>
<p>As I said before &#8211; I don&#8217;t intend for this to sound like criticism.  (I hate the loss of tone of voice for written communication.)  Just observing how the decision differs for the two activities.</p>
<p>Looking back, do you think you were at any serious physical risk at any point?  Can heat stroke (and other heat problems) lead to permanent damage (via stroke?) or serious heat complications?  Did any of the runners in the race have problems that will not go away in matter of days?</p>
<p>Congratulations on finishing the race, and I&#8217;m glad you be able to recover from the ordeal relatively quickly.  Thanks so much for writing about the experience &#8211; it is very interesting to get an insider&#8217;s view on something very different.</p>
<p>Best wishes,<br />
Cindy</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Kowal</title>
		<link>http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/2010/01/pain-or-pride/comment-page-1/#comment-290</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Kowal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 13:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.crossingtheyarden.com/?p=602#comment-290</guid>
		<description>I empathize with your story. For me I had a great 1st half at 1:52 but when I hit Kilometer 34 I hit the wall big time. Kilometer 38 took me 16 minutes to cover a Kilometer. So eventhough I came in 59 minutes slower then my best Marathon 2 years ago (in Tiberias at 3:43), I was just glad to have crossed the finish line with my hands up though I spent the next 3 hours in the Magen David Adom station getting fluids.

Kol Hakavod and Shabbat Shalom

Jon</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I empathize with your story. For me I had a great 1st half at 1:52 but when I hit Kilometer 34 I hit the wall big time. Kilometer 38 took me 16 minutes to cover a Kilometer. So eventhough I came in 59 minutes slower then my best Marathon 2 years ago (in Tiberias at 3:43), I was just glad to have crossed the finish line with my hands up though I spent the next 3 hours in the Magen David Adom station getting fluids.</p>
<p>Kol Hakavod and Shabbat Shalom</p>
<p>Jon</p>
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